THE HEARING

THE CROSS-EXAMINATION – Although we’re being playful with the title, there are some comparisons to be drawn between this episode and Gabriel García Márquez’s classic novel Love in a Time of Cholera. We’re covering issues of epic proportions, and it does feel like Brexit and COVID-19 have both spanned several lifetimes. Our host Becky Annison isn’t one to romanticise, but she does look at the positives and opportunities for legal teams with her guest experts, Moni Mannings and David Thorneloe.

At the time of recording, we’re a few short weeks away from the final Brexit deadline. There’s been good news globally about potential COVID-19 vaccines and many are looking forward to the end of the year that was 2020. This episode aims to help businesses bring the year safely into the Brexit harbour in the face of depleted resources and unknown challenges.

Contributors:
Moni Mannings, FTSE100 Independent Non-Executive Director
David Thorneloe, Legal Director, Pinsent Masons

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Star Trek gave us prototype mobile phones. In Back To The Future, Doc Brown and Marty McFly predicted voice recognition technology. And, as this episode discusses, it was Minority Report in 2002 that foresaw predictive policing.

This week, Yasmin Sheikh speaks with Christina Blacklaws – a strategic consultant and the 174th president of the Law Society. Christina is also an expert on legal technology and chair of the Ministry of Justice’s LawTech Delivery Panel. She describes the transformation happening in the legal sector and how computer algorithms are already being used in profound ways that impact our justice system.

Legal tech aside, Christina and Yasmin discuss how a majority of women entering the profession becomes a minority of leaders, and the work being done to address this. They also examine how COVID-19’s impact has made technology, flexible working and mental wellness even better companions.

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In this special US election instalment of the Hearing Podcast, Sanaz Asgharzadeh, former big law firm attorney now heading her own practice, Atlas Law Firm, talks to our very own Joe Raczynski.

With the caveat that at the time of recording a victor had not yet been chosen, and with the votes continuing to be counted in several swing states, Joe and Sanaz describe the current mood of the US as it waits to find out who will emerge victorious. Sanaz talks about her background as an Iranian immigrant in the US and how it shaped her interests in the law and political process. She takes us on a deep dive of the US electoral college system and discusses the potential for post-election litigation and what impact it could have on the outcome.

Sanaz also takes us through hypothetical scenarios involving the incumbent that might once have seemed unlikely, but in these unprecedented times are worthy of consideration. Finally, she discusses the importance of counting all of the ballots and the need for transparency in these efforts.

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How is sexuality considered in the modern workplace? How has the LGBTQ+ community been affected by COVID-19? What practical steps can people take to be an active ally beyond Pride and rainbow lanyards?

This week Yasmin talks with Reed Smith Partner, Honorary QC, global thought leader on diversity and inclusion and Daniel Winterfeldt, founder of the InterLaw Diversity Forum.

Yasmin and Daniel talk about how the InterLaw Diversity Forum focuses on cultural change in the workplace to foster inclusion for diverse talent in the legal sector and promote meritocracy across all sectors.

They also discuss the need for law firms and businesses to follow through on their commitments to cultural change in the legal workplace and how this can lead to wider systemic change for all.

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THE CROSS-EXAMINATION – On The Hearing, we hear from so many who have entered the legal profession with bold ambitions to change the world for the better. This week’s guests may just do that.

Becky talks to three determined lawyers about their involvement in a legal pro bono project to fight climate change. The Chancery Lane Project brings together legal professionals to create practical solutions to help reverse climate change. Their vision is a world in which every contract and law enables and encourages businesses to have a positive impact on the environment.

They talk through perhaps one of the biggest issues when confronting the climate crisis: its scale. The effects of climate change are incredibly complex and somewhat abstract. Translating that into tangible solutions is a huge challenge that The Chancery Lane Project is addressing through legal hackathons and collaborative problem solving.

Contributors:

Matthew Gingell, General Counsel, Oxygen House Group

Yasmin Waljee OBE, International Pro Bono Director, Hogan Lovells

Dan Summers, Commercial Lawyer, Environment Agency

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In this week’s episode, we showcase a conversation between Ron Levine, General Counsel at Herrick, Feinstein LLP, and host Joe Raczynski.

Ron, a graduate of Princeton University undergrad and Harvard Law School, speaks as a thoughtful realist, proponent for good, and a practitioner of what he preaches.  He bears witness as a 40-year litigator, discussing the fascinating dealings of what happens behind the class action suit scenes, describing a lack of transparency, and what he would do to improve the system.

Ron dives into the importance of technology as a crusader for others in the field.  Specifically, in the eDiscovery space he stresses the importance of tools, AI, and being smart about of all things, the use of email.  He also discusses what the future of litigation might look like with prediction modelling and big data.

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In this episode Yasmin chats to renowned equality and human rights lawyer Chris Fry. His Sheffield-based firm, Fry Law, represents people who have been treated unfairly by a service provider due to their disability, age, race, gender, sexual orientation or religion.

Chris talks about the landmark cases that have put him and his team of lawyers at the forefront of some profound changes, particularly for people with disabilities. He also outlines the huge impact the knock-on consequences of COVID-19 have had on certain groups; for example, by restricting their access to basic necessities like food.

Chris opens up about the work he and his fellow campaigners are doing to empower those people, and he reveals the fuel behind his unrelenting drive for justice.

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We’ve all heard of the tragic Harry Dunn case and that’s because of this week’s guest, Radd Seiger. He took the case on simply because he was a concerned neighbor of Harry’s grieving family.

Radd talks to Becky about his motivations and what’s involved in working to get justice for a client—in this case, a family. For international legal cases such as this, it can be easy to get mired in the complexity of the politics, diplomacy, and international relations and forget that for the client, all they want is some form of justice and to find the best way to move forward.

A lot of lawyers enter the profession because they have a passion for justice, doing right, and making the world better. Becky and Radd touch on how to reconcile that mission with the day-to-day tasks of being a lawyer and the impact it can have on mental health. They talk about the capacity and skills that lawyers have to open doors for their clients and to bring them on a journey.

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In this episode Joe is joined by David Brown, Legal Director of the Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund (TLDEF). TLDEF is a transgender-led organisation fighting for transgender rights through litigation and other legal avenues.

Working with numerous law firms, David and his team bring lawsuits to demonstrate how statutes are unequal and discriminatory. David tells Joe how his family inspired him to want to fight injustice. And he explains how TLDEF strategically selects cases with the ultimate aim of moving the law and the equality agenda forward, while also ensuring they authentically represent transgender people’s lives.

David talks about the importance of finding commonalities when discussing transgender people and the discrimination they face. Like anyone, transgender people want a nice place to live, a steady job, and access to healthcare. But in many parts of the world, such fundamentals of life are often denied.

David and Joe also discuss intersectionality, and how transgender people of colour are even more likely to face discrimination due to greater distrust and fear.

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THE CROSS-EXAMINATION – In this episode Becky hosts a discussion on the role of lawyers as ethical leaders and their relationship with racial justice. She's joined by Abimbola Johnson, a criminal barrister, and Carlos M. Brown, a senior VP and GC, to examine racial issues from UK and US perspectives.

Lawyers have a unique position, enjoying a status as trusted professionals who give advice and provide solutions to an array of issues, yet they're not generally thought of as ethical leaders. And while lawyers frequently deal with various systems of justice, the connection between this work and justice can often be obscured by the detail of day-to-day tasks.

Carlos, Abimbola and Becky speak about the current relationship between the legal profession and racial justice, the fundamental nature of justice in society, how it differs from due process, and why the law is always running a few steps behind justice and ethics.

Contributors:

 - Carlos M. Brown, Senior Vice President, General Counsel and Chief Compliance Officer, Dominion Energy

 - Abimbola Johnson, Barrister, 25 Bedford Row

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For this week's guest, threats to her life, staying away from restaurants and supermarkets and covering her face to go outside has been a reality since long before lockdown.

Yasmin sat down with justice campaigner, Gina Miller for a wide-ranging chat that covered the abuse of women of colour in the media, the importance of dialogue and empathy, and the lessons in resilience she's had from her father and daughter.

Since she entered the spotlight following landmark legal rulings over Brexit, Gina has faced incredible scrutiny and has become, as one newspaper put it, “an easy target” for abuse. However, she talks about how she has been able to use her position to speak to many of her critics and hopefully help to transform their opinions and prejudices.

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This week we’re taking you across the pond to talk privacy, piracy, and intellectual property. Before lockdown, Joe Raczynski sat down with Chris Mohr, VP for Intellectual Property and GC at Software and Information Industry Association.

Working in the heart of the US federal government in Washington DC, Chris tells us about life as a lobbyist on Capitol Hill and how he navigates the challenges posed by different global approaches to intellectual property. He also talks about the intersection between IP and privacy law and the Constitution, as most data is effectively speech for Constitutional purposes, there are fundamental conflicts when people’s privacy rights are at stake.

Ever the futurist, Joe and Chris talk about where AI might be taking us and what IP implications there may be, as they ponder whether machines are legally allowed to be inventors.

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      THE CROSS-EXAMINATION – We looked at the business and economic impact of COVID-19 in the first Cross-Examination episode. This week we’re turning to its impact on our working culture.

Becky speaks to an occupational psychologist, diversity consultant and a head of knowledge management, to find out more about how lawyer’s working and personal lives are being affected by lockdown. Interestingly, she learns that many of us have become more efficient, more productive and more caring. But of course, there are exceptions.

She asks how lockdown has changed the way we look at mental health concerns in the profession, whether COVID-19 could derail the diversity and inclusion agenda, and what senior colleagues can do to assist trainees and junior staff at this time.

This is a fascinating discussion that touches on mental health, the disappearing veneer of corporate identities, and the pressing need to better understand all our colleagues regardless of their background or position.

       Contributors:

• Jens Näsström, Occupational Psychologist & Researcher
• Geoffrey Williams, Diversity & Inclusion Consultant
• Caroline White-Robinson, Head of Knowledge Management & L&D, Shoosmiths

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With Black Lives Matter protests taking place around the world once again, this week’s episode is a great opportunity to better understand the anger, grief and action of recent days.

We also have exciting news to bring you as we welcome our new host: a lawyer, disability advocate and founder of Diverse Matters, Yasmin Sheikh. Yasmin spoke to Hashi Mohamed, a barrister who first came to the UK as an unaccompanied child refugee, about his new book, ‘People Like Us’.

Weaving into his story, issues around race, class and identity, Hashi speaks of the importance of understanding one’s own context in defying an upbringing beset by poverty and hardship to gain the resilience, drive and confidence needed to radically transform his life.

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We’re taking you Stateside this week as our very own legal futurist Joe Raczynski is joined by Reuters General Counsel, Gail Gove.

Gail takes us behind the scenes of the case that grabbed the world’s attention in 2018: the incredible story of Reuters journalists, Wa Lone and Kyaw Soe Oo, who were imprisoned in Myanmar while investigating reports of mass murder. Gail talks to Joe about the all-encompassing nature of the work and what it’s like to work with one of the most famous lawyers in the world, Amal Clooney.

Starting out as a civil rights lawyer, Gail speaks of the importance of looking at legal issues through a wide-angled, global lens, the minefield of media laws around the world and the importance of having robust journalism.

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Isolation and IT problems are on the agenda this week, though, refreshingly, Lord Neuberger was talking about life in his judge’s chambers rather than Corona lockdown.

Former President of the Supreme Court, Lord Neuberger, speaks candidly to Kevin about his feelings of failure in his early career as he went from being a scientist, to City banker, before landing on his feet as a barrister. We hear about Lord Neuberger’s rise up the judicial ranks, why he initially turned down a High Court judgeship, and the regrets he had at becoming a judge.

Lord Neuberger speaks about the unique challenges associated with the Gina Miller Brexit cases, the politicisation of the judiciary and the media scrutiny he, his family and his fellow judges have had to face.

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We're still reeling from the fanfare of our 50th episode last time round and yet here's some more excitement for you all.

Welcome to the first “The Cross-Examination” episode of The Hearing! We're taking big issues and taking a long hard look at it through a legal lens.

Where else to start but with COVID-19? Becky Annison, a commercial lawyer and Practical Law Editor, talks to an economist, insolvency practitioner and business leader to look at how Covid-19 is really impacting the legal and business landscape, and works through the implications for the future.

You'd be forgiven for thinking that we've transported to a pre-corona Friday night drink with friends: There's an unusual link to non-lawyer Natalie Portman, a trip to the pub and good old-fashioned football chat.

We hope you enjoy this first 'The Cross Examination' episode of The Hearing – let us know your thoughts!

Contributors:

• Stephen Allinson, Chairman of the Board, The Insolvency Service
• Lucinda Case, Head of Legal Professionals Europe, Thomson Reuters
• Alexis Crow, Global Head of Geopolitical Investing Practice, PwC

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To celebrate our 50th episode, we're taking you down memory lane as we showcase some of the best bits with some of our favourite guests on The Hearing so far. Reminisce with Dame Fiona Woolf and Cherie Blair, who talk about the incredible women in the legal profession, as well as the ongoing challenges with gender inequality. Diversity and inclusion were the order of the day when Yasmin Sheikh joined us, while Brie Stevens-Hoare QC talked about a feeling of not belonging.

Highlighting the diversity of discussion that we've had on The Hearing, World Bank Vice-President Sandie Okoro talked to Joe Raczynski about the benefits of working at an organisation that embraced multiculturalism, while former Blur drummer Dave Rowntree spoke about swapping the rockstar life for a career in criminal law.

Criminal barrister Jonathan Goldberg QC regaled us with many a colourful tale about some of his more infamous clients. Alastair Campbell opened up about the Hutton Inquiry and his views on the government, while Ken Clarke talked to us about his posh accent and Cambridge education.

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Shopping trips, designer sweatshirts, dynasties and staying in shape. No, this isn't Legally Blonde the podcast; this week we're discussing the glamour and grunt work of the clerking world.

Kevin gets the lowdown on life as a clerk from Old Square Chambers’ Paul Adams, also known as Cliff! They discuss the range of skills needed to be a successful clerk, how the profession is keeping up with modern times, and sandwiches.

Recorded in the good old days before Coronavirus lockdown, when crisis management meant filling up a barrister’s diary after an early settlement, Paul talks us through the many quirks of clerking. Enjoy—and stay safe!

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Politics and scandal have shaped the career of this week’s guest. Cash for Honours, MP’s expenses, phone hacking, he was there for it all — on the right side of the law, of course!

Kevin sits down with Gerald Shamash, whose remarkable and diverse career has led to him being described as a celebrity lawyer, Labour Party lawyer and a legal aid lawyer—but he could have been a dentist! In this brilliant discussion, Gerald shares some great anecdotes about driving home with Alastair Campbell and representing Gazza—yes, that one—and he speaks incredibly passionately about his ardent commitment to public work despite the cuts to the legal aid budget in recent years. This isn’t an episode you’ll want to miss!

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Justice, mindfulness, biscuits! You’re in for a real treat this week, as Kevin sits down with his friend and CEO of LawCare, Elizabeth Rimmer.

Though Elizabeth started her career in zoology, her international upbringing combined with a sense of justice led to a career change. As a solicitor, Elizabeth could stand up for people and give them a voice. She gives her insights into being a medical negligence solicitor and talks about why she questioned whether the legal system was designed to deliver the kind of justice that her clients really wanted.

As CEO of LawCare, the charity that promotes and supports good mental health and well-being in the legal community, Elizabeth has does incredible work not only to raise awareness of these issues, but to tackle them. While originally focused on drinking culture at law firms, LawCare has evolved to work with lawyers on mindfulness and looking after their mental health as much as their physical health. Elizabeth is also a passionate advocate for ensuring that legal education includes education on looking after mental health.

Finally, Elizabeth talks to Kevin about Fit for Law, a new initiative designed to promote emotionally healthier ways of working within law, as well as her desire to build an army of people who want to do something about improving mental health and wellbeing in the legal profession.

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It really is a career of two halves for David Winnie, the ex-professional footballer who now heads up the Sport Law department for Charles Douglas Solicitors.

In this week’s episode, David talks to Kevin about his love of football—and studying—from a young age, and his desire to become a professional player. David recalls having to make a big decision when he was 16 – and then dreaded telling his mother on the bus home. The journeyman defender went on to win the Scottish Cup and captain St Mirren FC, before plying his trade Iceland and Australia.

David talks about his brief coaching and managerial career in Iceland and Scotland and the pressures placed not just on footballers who live their life under great public scrutiny, but also managers who are only as good as their last game.

As his football career came to a close, David went to university and, after methodically deciding what he didn’t want to study, chose law. He talks about the day-to-day sports law issues that arrive on his desk, whether it be contractual negotiations, tax issues or getting compensation for wantaway footballers. David tells Kevin about recently setting up a sports agency, and how his experiences as a professional footballer help him to empathise  with, and occasionally mentor, his clients, particularly when it comes to mental health safeguarding.

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In this week's episode, Joe Raczynski is joined by the pre-eminent thought leader in legal tech, and Chief Knowledge and Client Value Officer at Shearman & Sterling, Meredith Williams-Range.

Taking us on a journey from her small-town, rural upbringing just outside of Memphis (where you'll find the absolute best bbq) to the bright lights of New York, Meredith tells how family tragedy and a decade-long lawsuit led to a career in law.

Meredith talks about her career at Baker Donelson, where she worked with colleagues steeped in American history, including President Reagan's Chief of Staff, and eventually became involved with legal tech. The hustle led to a fascinating new position at Shearman & Sterling, a position that Meredith notes was designed on a napkin! The firm's great vision and wonderful people meant that Meredith knew from the start that she could do great work there… and have the best geeky conversations.

In a fascinating discussion about the growth – and the daunting pace of growth – of legal tech and big data analytics, Meredith and Joe consider the biggest legal tech changes of recent years, and talk about the exceptional new tools that serve a true need, with the added bonus of giving the enormous power of data to lawyers.

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It’s the weekend, you’re in Ibiza, you’re ready to party, and a lawyer takes to the stage…

Best. Night. Ever!

Of course, it helps when that lawyer is superstar DJ, ‘Judge’ Jules O’Riordan.

In this episode, Jules sits down with Kevin to talk about how he went from reading law at university, putting on illegal raves with his friends, to being one of the world’s best-known DJs, and now an entertainment lawyer with Sound Advice.

We hear how the combination of getting older and juggling a family life with the exhausting DJ lifestyle, contributed to a career change that has sparked plenty of curiosity among his legal peers. Jules tells Kevin what he loves about practising law and talks about the contrast between being a successful, self-centred artist and a lawyer focused primarily on his clients.

Jules speaks passionately about fighting the good fight, and how that mentality continues to drive his legal career. And he tells of his efforts to pass on his expertise and experience in helping young artists avoid the mistakes and pitfalls that he encountered early in his music career.

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This week’s distinguished guest is Sandie Okoro, the Senior Vice President and General Counsel for the World Bank. Sitting down with Thomson Reuters futurist Joe Raczynski, Sandie talks about how, from an early age, she learned that when someone limits your ambition it can become something to fight for and drive you on to enormous success.

In this inspirational episode, Sandie talks about the work behind the World Bank’s goal of eliminating extreme poverty by 2030 and also behind their efforts to promote the rule of law and access to justice. And she brings to light some of the incredible work done to tackle gender inequality and rebuild post-conflict societies.

Discussing the exciting evolution of her career, from a barrister to a solicitor and then general counsel, she explores the similarities and differences, and speaks passionately about the tangible outcomes in the public sector, where she sees the life-changing effects of her team’s work.

Finally, she shares her fascinating insight into the interplay between culture and the law, and how social movements change the law and, in turn, change cultural attitudes and drive social progress.

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Workers unite! Have you ever considered the crossover between sex workers and paralegals, or questioned whether Kevin is the enemy? In this eye-opening episode, the answers to those questions are just the tip of the iceberg.

Kevin is joined by Zachary Whyte and Molly De Dios. A second-year trainee at Hodge Jones & Allen, Zac co-founded Legal Sector Workers United, an affiliate of United Voices of the World, where Molly sits on the Executive Committee.

In this passionate discussion, Zac and Molly speak out against what they call the exploitation of paralegals. And they outline the work being done to ensure the best possible conditions for all legal sector workers, from barristers and solicitors to cleaners and security staff.

We hear about the immense challenges of securing the London Living Wage for a range of workers at the Ministry of Justice, and their campaign to restore the legal aid budget. Finally, Zac and Molly make a stirring case for all in the sector to get involved to help improve the justice system.

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In this episode, we talk to Labour MP, Alistair Darling, about how his Aberdeen law degree helped to shape his political career (spoiler alert: lawyers should be lawyers, not politicians). Although Alistair does admit that law is a solid discipline that enables you to ask critical questions, which are useful skills for politicians.

Alistair gives us his thoughts on the deeply divisive nature of referendums, including his take on Brexit and the inherent problems with a hard border.

He talks about the success of his memoir, ‘Back from the Brink’, which spent 1,000 days at number 1. He also divulges why he wouldn’t write another book for fear of picking fights.

Now away from frontline politics, we pose the question: would you be quick to return if there were to be another Scottish referendum? His answer may surprise you.

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From a young age, Ann Olivarius saw that men ruled the world.

A mother whose potential was left unfulfilled. A male-dominated college where sexual harassment was rife. An investment bank where no amount of talent and expertise could ever make her part of the team. It was a message she received time-and-time-again.

In this week’s podcast, you’ll hear how she turned that message into her motivation to make the world better through the power of law. Our first returning guest, Ann chats to Kevin about her life and storied career, during which she consistently uncovered, called-out and addressed inequality.

Ann talks about coining terms like sexual harassment and date rape, but delves beneath the terminology to discuss the necessity of change, the importance of paying privilege forward and how her ‘scary side’ has driven her to take on the institutions she once trusted.

She also talks about her recent work in the UK, navigating the challenges of our connected world. You’ll hear how Ann combines her influence with an underdog spirit to tackle issues like cyberbullying, cyber rape and regulating the internet.

From Alexander v. Yale to an innovative new way to help young people take action in response to revenge porn, it’s essential and inspirational listening.

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How does a construction barrister based in London, end up in Sierra Leone, advising local government on faecal sludge?

After 19 years as a Construction Barrister, Lucy Garret QC, was getting a little bit bored and wanted a change of scenery.

So, she did what most of us can only dream of and took an 18-month sabbatical. Leaving London, and travelling over 4,000 miles south to Freetown, Sierra Leone, to take up a new opportunity with the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change.

Currently working with the elected Mayor of Freetown, Lucy talks about how her skills and experience as a high-flying barrister have transferred to her new role, helping the local government to enhance their effectiveness, in order to deliver reforms or projects for the people of the country.

But, with her sabbatical coming to an end, and plans to return to take up her old life in London, Lucy reflects on her time in Sierra Leone, talking to Kevin about the life lessons, new skills and experiences she’s picked up along her journey and how these will help her transition to the next chapter of her life.

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In this episode Kevin meets with Freshfields knowledge lawyer, Lloyd Rees, to discuss his refreshing three-part blog series, addressing his own anxiety and depression.

Lloyd talks frankly about his decision to publish such private struggles, going right back to his teens. He shares his own experience with chemical depression, his recovery at The Nightingale Hospital and the amazing turnaround from rapid decline to a sustainable and positive mental health state.

As a huge plus point, we’re also joined by Kristina Adey-Davies, Senior Global Diversity and Inclusion Manager at Freshfields. She talks about the importance of employer support with mental health in the workplace and the resources employers can draw on. Interestingly, she also tells us why the prevalent self-oriented perfectionism trait in many lawyers can lead to mental health struggles.

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Welcome to The Hearing's first Legal Debate. In this special episode, we feature a blockbuster bout between legal, political and media heavyweights.

Listen in as the Rt Hon. the Lord Darling of Roulanish and the 'Queen of Sanctions' Maya Lester QC go head-to-head with journalist and author Alastair Campbell, and Monckton Chambers' own Ben Emmerson QC, debating on whether sanctions are fair and effective.

Not to be outdone by these debating titans, we've put Kevin and special guest Thomson Reuters' Simon Smith in a small booth, given them a bottle of plonk, and let them unleash their best Graham Norton-esque commentary. Sit back and enjoy.

Sit back and enjoy.

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This week’s guest has experienced a wealth of colourful nicknames including ‘The Riviera Gigolo’, ‘The Burnley Bruiser’ and ‘The Real Deputy Prime Minister’. Yes, it’s former Downing Street Press Secretary and Director of Communications, Alastair Campbell.

He’s chatting to us about the trivial (a love of bagpipes and his ‘soft-porn first forays into writing’), to the momentous (Boris Johnson being a puppet and the media lies around Brexit). Alastair opens up to Kevin about his upbringing, including his time at Cambridge and his assessment of the ‘private schoolboys’.

He talks about the role of the press in supporting a healthy democracy, but discusses the current battle being played out, which isn’t necessarily laden with truths. He also discusses the role of PR and the media in high-profile law cases, and how lawyers should be dealing with them.

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Imagine this: you're 13 and bullied for being 'ugly'. But in a dramatic turn of events, you put the middle finger up to your bullies and land a modelling job for Vogue that your peers could only dream of. Then you're suddenly plunged into a world of 16 hour days, starvation diets and made to strip naked at work on a regular basis.

So, what do you do? If you're this week's guest, Leanne Maskell, you get a law degree and go on to write an award-winning exposé on exploitation in the modelling industry. Kevin chats to her about her burgeoning legal career and gets the lowdown on her book, The Model Manifesto – an A - Z in anti-exploitation to guide both models and their parents through the murky waters of the fashion industry.

Leanne opens up about her quest to protect other young models from the exploitation she suffered, and help them avoid the pitfalls of financial, sexual, physical and emotional ill-treatment.

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This week’s guest is Mary Robinson (never to be called Mrs. Robinson), a lawyer and diplomat who served as the 7th President of Ireland. Kevin and Mary talk about how her early life as the only girl of four siblings ignited her desire for gender equality and how in her own words ‘she learned how to use her elbows’.

A former High Commissioner for Human Rights, Mary talks in a refreshingly frank way about the social justice implications of climate change, her admiration for Greta Thunberg and how Nelson Mandela taught her to listen to both the locals and young people for insights. She tells us all about her position as Chair of The Elders, an independent group of global leaders working together for peace, justice, and human rights, founded by Mandela.

Not one for shying away from controversy, Mary also discusses her struggles closer to home while fighting for political change in Ireland and how she’s proud of the Ireland that exists today.

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Holed up in a small Nordic city, a disruptive genius develops a robot lawyer designed to methodically take over the Norwegian legal industry. But this isn't a synopsis for the next big Scandi thriller – it's the latest episode of The Hearing.

This week's guest, Morten Tidemann, flew in from Stavanger in Norway. He's best known for the innovative methods he's using to disrupt the business of law. Morten sits down with Kevin to discuss the efficiency savings enabled by his robot lawyer 'Ida' – around document assembly for legal, as well as business transactions and processes.

The pair also chat about Nordic noir TV, alternative fee arrangements, the stigma of low-cost legal services, and why lawyers tend to be so risk-averse when it comes to tech adoption.

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In this episode we meet a woman who describes herself as a thrill seeking, motorbiking, bungee jumping, feminist, activist and pansexual.

From that intro, who would have thought we'd be speaking to a top QC? This week, Kevin catches up with good friend Brie Stevens-Hoare. And, after 5 minutes of listening, it will feel like you've known Brie for years too.

Not one for conforming or seeking accolades, Brie gives a funny, honest and emotional take on her road to becoming a silk. She also opens up about her struggle with 'imposter syndrome' and feeling like an outsider within the profession. Make sure you listen out for Brie's tale about lending Lord Neuberger her watch!

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The one question we wanted to know when we sat down with our latest high-profile guest was whether it was BLAIR or BOOTH? No second guessing as to who we’re speaking about. Yes, our latest guest on The Hearing podcast is barrister, lecturer, writer, Founder and Chair of Omnia Strategy, and former resident of 10 Downing Street, Cherie Blair (Booth). Kevin heads across to leafy Marylebone to sit down with Cherie, where she shares a number anecdotes from her life and career. A few highlights include: overcoming the gender imbalance during the 70’s and 80‘s at the Bar, putting aside her ambition of becoming High Court Judge when her husband became PM, and how she dragged herself to court just 10 days after a caesarean. During their conversation, Cherie’s love for the law is obvious. Whether it’s her continued international legal and advisory work, mentoring the next generation of lawyers, or discussing Lord Derry Irvine’s love for Pugin wallpaper, she maintains the same level of enthusiasm as she had when she started 40 years ago. And with so many plans in place and work to do, there is no sign of her slowing down.

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Before our Kevin was the high-profile, polished podcaster he is today, he cut his teeth co-hosting a pioneering and often controversial weekly podcast with our latest guest. Often equated to the Popbitch of law, everyone knows Legal Cheek – as it's the most read legal website in the UK. But does everyone know the man behind it?

In the final episode of season 3, Kevin catches up with Legal Cheek's founder Alex Aldridge to reminisce about those early days of blogging and podcasting, that led on to the website we know and love today. The pair also trade stories about the wild west beginnings of social media, discuss the impact of greater self-awareness on today's legal figures, and debate which law firms have the best biscuits.

Fortunately/unfortunately (depending on your point of view) this meeting didn't include the now infamous pre-recording pub sessions of Alex and Kevin's early podcasting careers.

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When your job involves advising UEFA, taking photos with Usain Bolt and guiding the next generation of sports stars, you know you're onto a good thing. With a career spanning football, swimming, athletics, volleyball and the Olympics, Rowena Samarasinhe is a sports-loving lawyer, living a sports lover's dream. Kevin caught up with Rowena, who's now a partner at Level – a niche sports, media and technology law firm – to discuss the business of sport. She spills the beans on how she's managed to combine her love of law with her life's other passion, and what it's like working with some of the biggest athletes and organisations on the planet. Rowena also shares tips for any budding sports lawyers keen for a slice of the action.

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Imagine being wrongfully accused of a crime you didn't commit. Being snatched from the life you know and sentenced for a lifetime. Knowing you're innocent and having to fight with yourself and those arguing against you, every single day. This isn't a scenario from a Netflix crime series; this is real life for many. In this episode of The Hearing, Kevin sits down with Lara Bazelon, author of 'Rectify: The Power of Restorative Justice After Wrongful Conviction'; an attorney, law professor, and advocate for social, racial and gender justice. During their conversation, Lara speaks candidly about her work defending those charged with the most serious crimes; faults with the US justice system; and how tough it can be to restore justice.

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What’s the recipe to a good podcast conversation?
Take 1 chatty Yorkshireman.
Add a former lawyer, turned celebrity chef and baker.
Stir in a pinch of celebrity parent.
Season with some work, life and children.
And bake for 40 minutes.

This week, Kevin joins Allegra Benitah, also known as celebrity baker Challah Mummy, in her kitchen, for a cup of tea and a taste of Challah.

The daughter of TV and radio personality Vanessa Feltz, Allegra has forged her own successful career. A champion for healthy work-life balance, she speaks about her decision to leave a high-flying legal career to build a new life, allowing her to focus on spending more time with her family and on her baking passions.

Watch out Mary Berry!

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Why are there so many lawyers in parliament? Because lawyers are articulate? They understand the law? Have had varied life and professional experience? Are confident public speakers?

Our latest guest has all of these attributes and more.

In episode 26, Kevin sits down with the Rt. Hon. Nicky Morgan MP, where they discuss Britain’s political culture, character education, equality and breaking glass ceilings, the responsibility we all have when using social media, and the damaging impact Brexit is having on our national psyche.

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When Laura King hired Tiernan Brady to champion diversity and inclusion at Clifford Chance, she hired a campaigning rockstar. With stadium-sized successes under his belt in the marriage equality referendums in Ireland and Australia, Tiernan came with an enviable reputation and a work ethic to match. And, as one of the first female partners at Clifford Chance, Laura has already lead the charge for change.

Laura is now Global Head of People & Talent at Clifford Chance, while Tiernan is their first Global Head of Inclusion. And together this duo are making some big cultural waves. That's right – this interview is a 50/50 split. How's that for equality?

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When Extinction Rebellion took over Oxford Circus and Waterloo Bridge, they were doing so in the clean air of London's Ultra Low Emission Zone. And for that, they have Anna Heslop and the work of ClientEarth to thank. You see, while some take direct action in pursuit of preserving our small blue dot, others (like Anna) use the law – working with lawmakers, governments and manufacturers to help protect and improve the environment.

Anna clearly loves her job, and she goes about it with a dedication and passion we should all be thankful for. You may have already seen her on TV, or heard her on the Today Programme. Now's your chance to get to know her a little better. Listen in as she talks to our Kevin about everything from Brexit, to a surprising lack of thank you letters from bison.

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Naming no names, which host of a well-known legal podcast was recently seen disappearing through a suspicious-looking black door in London's seedy Soho?

We'd hate to start scurrilous rumours, but our secret sources tell us that this natty dressing, spec wearing, Yorkshire Tea drinker was heard discussing all manner of smut, celebrity gossip, the Leveson Inquiry, super-injunctions, defamation, copyright and scandal – with weekly digital icon of rumour, humour and innuendo, Popbitch.

Luckily we've obtained a recording of what happened. Popbitch's Chris Lochery and Duncan Lamont, from Charles Russell Speechlys, talk candidly about what it's like to walk the legal tightrope. Let's keep it between ourselves who the other person is though, ok?

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This week's episode is a matter of life and death. It's bursting with Shauneen Lambe's stories of youth, activism and rebellion; and includes dark tales from Belizean death camps and death row in America's Deep South.

No two journeys through a career in law are the same, but this one will stand out even if you're a dedicated listener. Shauneen has clearly found her calling in her multifaceted pursuit for justice.

This episode is a worthy listen. And in honour of Shauneen's belief in action and realising one's own potential, we suggest you do it now.

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The Hearing is back. And it's back with a great big Brexit bang.

Amongst the din and clatter of the chaos that has encapsulated the country, several key figures have emerged. Dominic Grieve QC is one of them. Persona non-grata for most of his own party; a hero to millions of petition-signing Remainers. This is what The Hearing does best.

Join Kevin and Dominic as they put the world to right – or wrong, depending on your point of view. Expect verbose opinions on everything from tweeting, David Cameron and the Murdochs, and of course the 'B' word.

(This episode was recorded before the recent vote of no confidence from Dominic's local party, and the associated scandal revealed by The Guardian.)

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It's 1994 and a bespectacled pre-pubescent Yorkshire lad unpeels the wrapping from the new CD by Blur. He carefully places it in his mini-HiFi and presses play. PARKLIFE! Giddy with excitement, he picks up a couple of biros and tries to keep pace with the beat on his yellow legal notepad.

Fast forward 25 years and that same lad, our Kevin, is sitting across the table from the man who cracks out the beat – Dave Rowntree, the drummer from Blur. Yes, you read that right – Dave Rowntree, the drummer from Blur! He's a bona fide rockstar and a global icon. He's also a qualified lawyer and a local councillor.

Forgive us if we go weak at the knees, whoop wildly and mosh in our Doc Martens. What a closer for series 2! Pop in your headphones, press play and listen in. It doesn't get better than this. WOO HOO.

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Cannibals. Terrorists. Serial killers. Movie stars. Megastars. Musicians. Meet the person who's been in court with them all. This episode's guest is courtroom artist Priscilla Coleman. She's the public's eyes in court, and she does it all from memory.

Say 'howdy' to the Texan who spends more time at the Old Bailey than hardened criminals. Court can be weird and wonderful, and Priscilla's sketches capture it all. Listen in as she chats to our Kevin, while simultaneously drawing the scene.

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Two giants of the feminist movement, one chatterbox host, and just 30 minutes to cover a lot of ground. Dear listeners, we're sorry. This week, time is not our friend.

Institutionalised discrimination, media giants, failing global icons, Trump, and the gender pay gap are just a few of the small (yeah right) topics that Kevin, Catherine Mayer and Ann Olivarius cram in. It's almost too much for one episode to cope with. Do you want more from these two guests? #metoo

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In the movie "When Harry met Sally", there's that famous scene in the coffee shop. "When Kevin met Millie" is definitely a less racy affair. But it's not one that holds back on the positive vibes.

Set backstage at the Women in Law conference (where she was a keynote speaker) Millicent Grant sits across the coffee shop table from our Kevin to talk about the power of saying "yes", and how her positivity and tenacity has got her to the top. Not by the conventional route. Or the route that comes with money, privilege and good grades. Millie's route was inspired by a photo of her uncle in his barrister's cloak and wig. First it took her to secretarial college, then on to becoming a Legal Executive, and eventually to becoming the first female and first black president of CILEx.

Now it's your turn to bang the table and whoop with delight. Listen in today!

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Not all heroes wear capes. Some of them wear gowns. Few guests on The Hearing could legitimately claim to be a lifesaver. But in episode 16, Kevin meets a man who is precisely that.

S Chelvan stands as a reminder of why those who work in the law got into it in the first place. Uphold justice. Protect the innocent. Change lives.

Personal, thought-provoking, honest and blunt, Chelvan takes Kevin through everything from his Sri Lankan roots and his homosexuality through to his activism and trouble-making, and how that makes you one of the UK's leading human rights and discrimination barristers.

But what does the S stand for? Superhero perhaps.

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'Kids from council estates don't go to university and don't become lawyers.'  When Barry Matthews sat down with his careers adviser at 17 and said he wanted to study law, that's exactly the response he got.  Now ITV's top lawyer, Barry is determined to kill off this stereotype.  Barry's modest beginnings have been the driving force behind the Social Mobility Business Partnership.  SMBP has provided work insight, skills training and coaching to hundreds of under-privileged students throughout nine cities, promoting social mobility in the legal and accountancy professions.  As well as discussing corporate social responsibility, Barry chats to Kevin about nights out with the Cheeky Girls, the power of a free beer and the ethics of modern day television.

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The last 10 years have been phenomenal for Bird & Bird – with a keen and fruitful programme of global expansion. And this is in no small part to the firm's hard-working CEO, David Kerr.

Kevin sits down with David to discuss his 22 years at the helm. Bird & Bird may have a history dating back to 1846, but it has innovation at its core. How does David feel about getting into bed with China? And just how important is Silicon Valley? This episode sees us on the top floor of Bird & Bird's new Fetter Lane offices, pondering life in charge.

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Michelle. Melania. Herr Merkel. If (big if) there was a "Political First Partners" WhatsApp group, they'd be there. And until October 2018, so would Miriam. But her husband has gone to Facebook to be their new Head of Global Affairs and Communications and she has (metaphorically) left the group.

This week, Kevin says a great big "hola" to Miriam González Durántez. Not Mrs Clegg. By day she's an international trade rights lawyer. By night she's chief championeer of young girls' rights through her brainchild inspiringgirls.org.

Brexit, Henderson's Relish, cooking blogs, and a future where Nick could join the aforementioned mythical WhatsApp group – this episode has got it all. As a Yorkshireman would say, "de nada".

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Before the #MeToo movement, publicly speaking out against sexual harassment was a much riskier exercise. Calling out behaviour could find you isolated and even alienated in certain industries, both professionally and personally. Despite these risks, that's exactly what our latest guest did – challenging a senior solicitor over a now infamous message he sent via LinkedIn.

In episode 12 of The Hearing, barrister and self-proclaimed feminist Charlotte Proudman sits down with Kevin to speak about how she dealt with her face being splashed across the front pages, being trolled by keyboard warriors and even being labelled a 'feminazi'. Charlotte and Kevin also cover the feminist movement, gender parity, women's only events, her 'inspiration' Catharine MacKinnon, and the difficult subject of disclosure around rape cases.

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He's a controversial, no holds barred, opinionated, orator who defends the guilty and loves a good cup of Yorkshire tea. No, we're not talking about Kevin.

In The Hearing's series 2 opener, Jonathan Goldberg QC invites us into a world of colourful characters and rogues. Not one to be backward about coming forward, Jonathan lets rip on the state of the "groaning and creaking criminal justice system", the incompetence of solicitors, and the lavish and unnecessary spending on champagne and lunches at the Bar.

With more stories than a skyscraper, Jonathan rattles through everything from Hillsborough, Royal Marine A and defending "the charming" Charlie Kray. It's time to meet the man who takes on the task of defending the guilty. "I'm just a mouthpiece. I'm not the judge and jury, I'm the advocate." He's certainly no wallflower.

Get your ears around this today.

As you might expect, this episode contains language that some may find inappropriate.

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Karen Jackson is an inspirational lover of problem-solving, passionate for French and a self-styled protector of the underdog. In this episode Kevin meets the founder of didlaw, one of the UK's leading disability discrimination practices.

A former City trader, Karen talks candidly about the roundabout route she took into law and how a heart transplant helped guide her to a new path – setting up her own practice that's focused on challenging mental health, disability and illness discrimination.

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Fans of the hugely popular Netflix documentary Making a Murderer will know this week's guest. Dean Strang was one of the defence lawyers for Steven Avery. Dean was an eloquent voice of reason throughout the series, which led to him being labelled an international sex symbol.

A modest Dean tells Kevin how he first got involved in the Avery case, and how he's dealt with the wave of media and public attention ever since. They also discuss Dean's views on the US criminal justice system, his cartoonist aspirations, and whether Dean should move to the UK to become a judge.

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The 'Diva of Divorce', Ayesha Vardag, sits down with Kevin in the luxurious Vardags offices in St. Paul's, London. They discuss Georgian mahogany, her high net-worth clientele and the Var-Bot – Ayesha's personal office robot that'll be familiar to fans of The Good Wife.

During her divorce, Ayesha had an Erin Brockovich-esque transition from commercial to family law, which ultimately led to her being offered a job by the lawyer who managed her case. This episode looks at the impact Ayesha's cases and campaigning have had on family law reform, and it offers an exciting behind-the-scenes look at one of the UK's fastest growing law firms.

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In this episode, Tory MP Ken Clarke reveals why he has occasionally dressed up in women’s underwear. The former Lord Chancellor and current Father of the House of Commons also tells Kevin what he thinks of his new-found fans – drawn by his outspoken views on Brexit.

This episode won't disappoint.  The pair also discuss: pressure to modify Ken's Nottinghamshire accent; attending Rushcliffe beauty parades for column inches; death threats; selfies; and Trump (the president, not the inflatable baby).

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In this episode Kevin is joined by Yasmin Sheikh. Yasmin is the founder of Diverse Matters, vice-chair of the Law Society’s Lawyers with Disabilities Division, consultant, coach, actress, comedian and TEDx speaker. 

During their conversation, Yasmin talks about her experience of being thrown into the world of disability overnight and the daily challenges she faces. Yasmin also discusses the impactful work she's doing with law firms, advising about disability related issues in an effort to improve communication, visibility and opportunities.

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In this episode Kevin is joined by Sir Rupert Jackson, Barrister, Lord Justice of Appeal and legal reformer.

As well as his infamous reform of civil litigation costs, Rupert has authored some of the industry's leading texts during his 50 year career. Now, back at the bar, he talks through the fresh challenges facing lawyers and discusses his new role as a Justice in the AIFC Court and International Arbitration Centre in Kazakhstan.

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In this episode Kevin is joined by barrister Robin White.  Robin was the first barrister to transition from male to female while in practice at the employment and discrimination bar.  They chat about Robin's early life and career, and how dealing with personal discrimination in her late twenties became a catalyst for a career change into law. 

Now specialising in transgender rights, Robin offers a candid insight into her experience.  She discusses the current issues that surround gender-transformation, as well as general workplace and social discrimination in Britain today.

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In this episode Kevin is joined by Lord Michael Howard of Lympe. Although best known for his time as a Government Minister and as a former leader of the Tories, Michael’s life before Westminster involved a distinguished career at the Bar. As a vocal supporter of the 'Leave Means Leave' campaign, Michael's views on Brexit are crystal-clear but we also hear he has some personal regret over one of his most controversial ministerial decisions.

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In this episode Kevin is joined by 'futurist' Joe Raczynski (@joerazz). You'll hear Joe explain what his job actually is and why we should all pay attention to cyber security. As an expert in legal technology and AI, we also explore the rise of blockchain and crypto currencies, the challenges for driverless cars and the future of the robot lawyer.

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In the inaugural episode of The Hearing – a legal podcast from Thomson Reuters, Kevin is joined by Dame Fiona Woolf. During their conversation they reflect on Fiona’s fascinating career, including her time as president of the Law Society, and as Lord Mayor of London. Kevin and Fiona also chat about Fiona’s ongoing work in promoting diversity and inclusion with the Power of Diversity programme. Listen out for Dame Fiona’s incredible anecdote on how Carrie Morrison became the first female to be put on the roll.

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